McCain, Graham support Obama on Gitmo

FYI, I just got this release from Lindsey Graham's office:

JOINT STATEMENT FROM U.S. SENATORS LINDSEY GRAHAM AND JOHN MCCAIN ON GUANTANAMO EXECUTIVE ORDER

Washington, D.C. - U.S. Senators Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and John McCain (R-Arizona) today issued the following statement regarding the executive order put forth by President Obama calling for the closure of the prison at Guantanamo:  

“We support President Obama’s decision to close the prison at Guantanamo, reaffirm America’s adherence to the Geneva Conventions, and begin a process that will, we hope, lead to the resolution of all cases of Guantanamo detainees,” said Senator Lindsey Graham and Senator John McCain.  “The executive orders issued today constitute an important step in the right direction but leave several major issues unaddressed.”
“Numerous difficult issues remain,” Senator Graham and Senator McCain continued.  “Present at Guantanamo are a number of detainees who have been cleared for release but have found no foreign country willing to accept them.  Other detainees have been deemed too dangerous for release, but the sensitive nature of the evidence makes prosecution difficult.  The military’s proper role in processing detainees held on the battlefield at Bagram, Afghanistan, and other military prisons around the world must be defended, but that is left unresolved.  Also unresolved is the type of judicial process that would replace the military commissions. We believe the military commissions should have been allowed to continue their work.  We look forward to working with the President and his administration on these issues, keeping in mind that the first priority of the U.S. government is to guarantee the security of the American people.”

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... which seems to me an appropriate stance for the loyal opposition. They support their commander in chief because they share his concerns that our nation live up to its highest ideals -- which is completely consistent with their advocacy during the Bush administration. (And remember, McCain said that he, too, would have closed the Gitmo facility if elected.) At the same time, they make sure they get on the record the unresolved problems inherent in this move. Smart, principled and appropriate.

Comments

[Doug Ross]

I guess the Obama's don't have to worry about what type of dog to get their daughters. Seems like there will be plenty of lapdogs sniffing around the White House to choose from.

File this one under "Reasons Republicans Didn't Vote For McCain".

(note: I agree with the decision to close the prison at Guantanomo... I just don't agree with Senators who call Obama a threat to national security in October and reverse course in January).

[Doug Ross]

And maybe Senators McCain and Graham could prove they are fiscal conservatives by combining their PR's staffs.

[Bill C.]

Are you surprised that Graham sucks up to whoever is in power? He's been doing it since he got to Washington. He was Bush's biggest "yes man/woman" on Capitol Hill, it looks like he's working for that same title under Obama. If "anybody" would run against him, (Republican, Democrat, Communist, Baptist) they'd get my vote... I'd vote to leave the slot open if it were a choice.

[Lee Muller]

This Executive Order does nothing for now.
* It says to close GITMO in January 2010, so they can figure out where to jail these dangerous prisoners.

* It does suspend the trials until they figure out which alternative court to use

* It retains the option of remaining at GITMO or even re-opening GITMO, if they have no place to put these prisoners or future prisoners.

1. Go back to what Clinton was doing: sending the prisoners to Saudi Arabia and Egypt for torture. Clinton sent 150 prisoners there that have disappeared.

2. Send them to the European countries which have criticized GITMO, but the Red Cross says GITMO is far more humane than most European prisons.

3. Send prisoners to local jails in the home Congressional districts of B. Hussein Obama, John Murtha, Dennis Kucinich, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and the others who want to shut down GITMO.

[blue bunny]

I find it disgusting that one of the Obamanation's first acts is to pander to our enemies.
I'm sending Graham a windsock.

[Brad Warthen]

Lee mentions rendition...

You know, while I don't advocate it, I've never really sat up nights worrying about folks who want to blow us up being sent to Saudi and other such places to be handled according to local custom, for this reason: There seems to me a certain poetic justice in folks who are so hot to trot for Sharia and the like to be sent to a place that actually is run along repressive Islamist lines. You want it? You got it.

Yes, I'm opposed to torture. And yes, there is a chance that some detainees might actually be innocent. I'm just saying that of all the things that one might worry about, rendition would be low on my list of things to condemn. I'm much more concerned about making sure our OWN people don't waterboard or hook batteries up to or sic dogs on those in our custody, or otherwise go all Abu Ghaib on them.

If I'm in charge and I'm asked whether to subject a prisoner to rendition, I'll say don't do it. Absolutely not. And I'll follow up to make sure no one misunderstands me the way Henry II's thugs did. I don't hold with the Jack Bauer approach in any way, shape or form. I'm just saying that the idea of rendition, as nasty as it can be, isn't quite as awful to me as some other things are. I'm saying there's a hierarchy of moral outrages, and rendition isn't at the top of it for me.

[Lee Muller]

So, if Hussein Obama makes good on his campaign promise to hand over G.W. Bush and Dick Cheney to The Hague for trial, shouldn't Bill Clinton, Eric Holder, and Janet Reno also be tried for the 150 prisoners they sent to Saudi Arabia and Egypt?

That's where Bill Clinton got some of his information about the Iraq WMD.

[Brad Warthen]

Actually... and others correct me if I'm wrong here... Obama has been pretty clear that he wants to look forward, not back, and has left all that "prosecute Bush" stuff to the more extreme, and marginalized, elements of his party.

In other words, while MoveOn.org may not want to move on, Obama does. And I think he'd be very happy for Lee to move on with him...

[bud]

Indeed. Here's an interesting little article I found on the web. I'm glad to see we're moving on from the stuffy dress code of the previous administration:

A photo of President Obama in the Oval Office this morning is especially interesting because it's clear he's instituted a new dress code: The new president is not wearing a suit jacket. This from politicalwire.com

It was a rule during the Bush administration that no one ever enter the Oval Office without a jacket.

[blue bunny]

brad-
i agree, i've heard the same, and i don't think the prosecute Bush agenda is going anywhere.
i agree with your points on rendition as well, but a better course may be for the military to adhere to the Geneva Convention and do summary executions in the field. Combatants out of uniform should be treated as spies until the jihadists sign on to the Geneva Convention, put on uniforms and quit hiding among civilians.

[Doug Ross]

> And yes, there is a chance that some >detainees might actually be innocent.

Another "nuance" in Brad's views on the sanctity of human life. Fetus = human; possible terrorist = not

[Lee Muller]

Brad, I thought journalists looked for facts, not their feelings. When did Obama ever reverse his campaign promise to turn Bush and Cheney over for prosecution outside the US? He specifically mentioned The Hague as being acceptable to him.

Don't worry about getting information out of the terrorists. If Obama and the Democrats want to protect them here, the military just won't send any of them here.

[Birch Barlow]

Good for Graham and McCain for supporting the closing of GTMO.

Not because they are supporting their President -- that isn't their job. Not because it is good for the security of the nation.

But because it is the right thing to do. GTMO is a nightmare that should never have existed in this country.

[KP]

Time for everybody to accept the facts of life: elections are about getting elected, and that's about partisan politics. People say things. Those things aren't necessarily true, and if they might have some element of truth, they definitely don't give the whole nuanced picture. We could wish it were different. But we're grown-ups.

Doug, if you agree that Guantanamo should be closed, then get over the campaign rhetoric (because that's all it was) and applaud the progress. Be glad people are willing to work together to do what you think should be done.

[Bart]

If so many Americans disagree with the tactics used on "24", then why is it one of the highest rated shows on television, year after year after year? Next to American Idol, "24" is one of the most successful shows ever on television.

bud, its not about being stuffy, its about respect for the office. Nothing wrong with expecting anyone who comes into the Oval Room to be wearing a coat and tie.

When I worked in the ME, the last place you ever wanted to end up was inside their penal system for any reason whatsoever. After 3 days, either you have family or friends provide you with food and necessities or be prepared to live on the minimal nourishment necessary to stay alive. Don't expect to have a roomy exercise yard either. Their version of an exercise yard is a 4 to 6 inch round post buried deep in the ground and a 6 to 8 foot long leather strap or chain tied or locked around your neck and then tethered to the post - in the sun - for up to 10 hours a day. And those are the good jails. The mediocre ones located in outlying regions are the ones where prisoners are lead up a ladder to the top of a cone shaped stone tower with a parapet, let down with a rope ladder and then left alone with whatever else is in their with you. Food and water is handed to you through a long, narrow slit in the stone wall. I can only be thankful we never had to get anyone out of the really bad ones. We had one of our employees disappear for several days until he was located in the local jail. After that experience, he walked the straight and narrow without questions or hesitation. What he went through made Abu Gharib or Gitmo look like a Sunday School picnic and we had no recourse or no one to lodge a complaint with. When we tried the American Counsulate, we were told plainly, it is their country, their laws, live with it.

Doug, a fetus was not responsible for 9/11, terrorists were. A fetus has no choice in the matter of life or death, the terrorist does. Terrorists target innocent children, women, and men when they set off bombs in public places, fly airplanes into high rise office buildings at 9:00 am, or detonate a bomb at a government building in Oklahoma City. A fetus who has done nothing to deserve death is thrown into a trash container or incinerator at 9:00 am after extraction from the mother's womb. What was the point you were trying to make? Terrorists are humans? I go along with that but only to the degree they are biological creatures who resemble human beings.

[Heidi Peacock]

I pipe in for Bart: "Terrorists are humans?"

Pansies, all, if you buy that line of bubble gum propaganda.

###

[I hereby end my war with Brad Warthen...I am moving on to the REAL enemy.]

[Brad Warthen]

bud and I might find a lot of stuff to agree on, but we're going to butt head on the dress code thing. I like my president, and the guys around him, to dress the part -- something that I think Obama does quite well, by the way. He projects a kind of early-60s Best and Brightest look; I can't really put my finger on it (my wife says it's because he's so slender, and so clothes look on him the way they looked back in the skinny tie days). I expressed concern back during the campaign that he -- and Biden and McCain, too -- went tieless a little more than I wanted to see. But so did Bobby Kennedy, and he knew when to wear a tie. So does Obama.

Long live proper neckwear. A president without a tie is just relaxing a little too much for my taste. As long as I've gotta wear a tie (and if I don't, I'm not showing proper respect to people who meet with the editorial board), so should the POTUS.

[Birch Barlow]

If so many Americans disagree with the tactics used on "24", then why is it one of the highest rated shows on television, year after year after year? Next to American Idol, "24" is one of the most successful shows ever on television.

Are you being serious here? If so, this is horrible logic. Most people in this country realize the difference between fiction and non-fiction when they are watching TV. By the same standard, people who watch the Sopranos do not support the criminal activity on that show.

If the point of your paragraph about Middle Eastern prisons was to show that they are inhumane, then good job. If the point of that paragraph was to justify the existence of GTMO by pointing out a less humane place somewhere else in the world, then you failed to make a logical argument. If your point was something else, I apologize for misunderstanding.

Finally, I don't think Doug was comparing the sanctity of life of fetuses with terrorists, but instead with possible terrorists -- some of which are innocent.

[Brad Warthen]

I didn't mind that Sarah Palin didn't wear a tie. A double standard, yes, but what are you gonna do? Women have it tough enough. At occasions where our solution is to wear a suit, they have this infinite variety of decisions to make. And best of all, if the affair is formal, WE GET TO WEAR THE VERY SAME SUIT EVERY TIME. I don't know who made that rule, but I'm pretty sure he was one of us.

I have a tux that didn't cost me a dime. Robert Ariail gave it to me second-hand about a decade ago when he bought a new one, and I still wear it when occasion demands. I'm dead serious. (I had to have it taken in a little, by the way.) What a deal. Sometimes when I'm putting it on I worry that maybe I look like Mel Gibson in "The Year of Living Dangerously," when he went to the reception in a tux he'd dug off the closet floor or something, and in the scene where he's trying to make time with Sigourney Weaver at the party, you can see the back of the coat is dirty. But hey, they let him into the party, and Ms. Weaver didn't seem to mind.

[Brad Warthen]

Terrorists, mind you, never wear suits and ties.

[Karen McLeod]

Birch, my fear is precisely that all too many people don't understand the difference between the likes of "24" and reality. I'm not sure that most people understand that that things are seldom as black/white as TV shows make them out to be, nor that solutions always work out for the 'heroes' as well in real life as they do on TV. That leads people to take a more "cowboy" approach to diplomacy. I think Mr. Obama, in fact, has a more sophisticated grip on reality.

Brad, I think Mr. Obama should be allowed to set his own reasonably neat dress standard when he is working in his own office. You know, while watching the opening to the Olympics last summer, I was struck with how many countries had managed to dress in comfortable clothes and still look good. I would recommend fighting the "coat and tie" code next summer, on the grounds of creating a greener thermostat setting for your company. And terrorist wear whatever they must to blend in. Perhaps we should force arrested terrorists to wear suits and ties.

[york "Budd" Durden]

Tie = noose.

[Doug Ross]

Birch,

Thanks for clarifying what I meant. My point was that Brad seems to think that if we kill 99 terrorists and 1 non-terrorist by mistake, then we're still ahead.

The taking of any innocent life is unacceptable. Or it's not. It can't be okay in one circumstance and not the other in my view.

We (the United States) have killed thousands of innocent men, women, and children in Iraq and Afghanistan in the name of the "war on terror".

[Rich]

I am starting to have reason to hope that responsible Republicans who are willing to work with Obama are coming to forefront and are willing to work with the administration on a bipartisan basis. It is not good for either the Democrats or the Republicans to enjoy a smug hegemony over the government. There needs to be dialogue, compromise, and consensus. This cannot happen if everyone is intransigently opposed to everyone else or uses rhetoric that precludes a meeting of the minds.

As for Gitmo, it needs to be closed with all deliberate speed. Read the Bill of Rights if you need a refresher on the rights of people, not just the American people. If we have to torture somebody and hold them for months without trial in an Orwellian prison so appropriately located in totalitarian Cuba, what does that say about what we really believe?

The USA is a nation based on an idea of freedom enshrined in our constitution, not in blood and soil. We have to keep reminding ourselves of that when we deal with fanatics who mean to do us harm everywhere in the world.

Yes, we will defend ourselves against those who commit aggression against the homeland, but we should not stoop to their level by jettisoning our fundamental beliefs about freedom, democracy, republicanism, and human rights.

It does not surprise me that McCain and Graham would support Obama on Gitmo. They may disagree with Obama on specific policy issues, but they understand our core values as democratic republicans (small r, small d).

In two days of Obama's administration, I already sense a hopeful start. After eight long years, it's great to have a president with a brain.

[Bart]

Birch, I was being serious about "24". Think about it this way. We as a people generally watch what appeals to us and if a program is really popular with the audience, it says a lot about our psyche. The fact that "24" has such a following is is highly anticipated each season tells me that in our collective attitude, what Jack does to terrorists is something deeply rooted in our psychological makeup and through vicarious means, we live out our fantasies which for the most part depict what we as individuals would do if given the opportunity. In our PC world where torture is not acceptable, when we see truth extracted from the villain, whether it be a terrorist or serial killer, by any means possible, we secretly cheer for the success of Jack or other fantasy heroes. Admittedly, I don't watch the show but do read up on it at times. My friends and family keep me informed of his exploits.

As for the Sopranos, I don't think the parallel is the same. Two of the most successful movies of all time are "The Godfather" and "Godfather II". I thoroughly enjoyed both but never did I imagine being a member of the Mafia or living the gangster life.

American Idol is another example of living life vicariously through others. How many will honestly admit to having a secret desire to be able to perform brilliantly as a singer, musician, or an entertainer of some kind but don't have the talent. How successful were the sales of the Air Guitar this Christmas season?

I hope you understand the point I am trying to make. You may not agree but at least think about what I posted in response.

As far as the reply to Doug, if I misunderstood the point Doug was trying to make, I owe him an apology. Hopefully Doug will clarify. But, I will stand by my words about how I feel when it comes to terrorists and what they do.